From Consulting to Enterprise Healthcare Technology

Beyond Consulting with Ryan Starks


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Ken Kanara: Hello, and welcome to beyond consulting brought to you by ECA partners. The only podcast dedicated to helping our listeners navigate the wide variety of options they have after a career in consulting. I’m Ken Kinera host to be on consulting and CEO of ECA partners, a specialized project staffing and executive search firm focused on former management consultants and private.

Each week I host guests that have spent time in consulting and made some sort of a pivot or a career change. And the goal is really to help our audience understand all the options they have available to them. And ideally learn from our guests, both in terms of what they did right. And things they wish they would have done.

Today we welcome Ryan Starks to the studio. Ryan is the director of marketing for the leading system for care operations before Ryan spent time leading strategic initiatives for both Stanford health care, as well as various startups. Prior to that, he was a consultant for both Innosight and Booz and company.

He also holds an MBA from Harvard business school. Ryan, thanks so much for joining us today.

Ryan Starks: Thanks so much for having me. It’s a pleasure.

Ken Kanara: Yes, Ryan, this is actually a long time coming. I, how long have we known each other?

Ryan Starks: I think we’ve known each other for over a decade, I guess it was, you know, way back at the start of our careers in Dubai when we first met.

Ken Kanara: Yeah, that’s right, actually. So well, was it Dubai or Kuwait where we were.

Ryan Starks: It may have been Kuwait actually on a client, some client work there.

Ken Kanara: Okay. So, so, so for those of you that don’t know, so Ryan and I got, we actually met in the middle east I think at a at a, at a buffet in, it was either Dubai or Kuwait.

I can’t remember now, but but Ryan was my, was my first real friend in, in the middle east.

Ryan Starks: It was definitely a buffet and it was probably a, a sushi counter. You know, as well. It can, I know you and I spent tons of time searching for the best sushi all over the middle east. That was it. You know, you could have probably had a blog on that at some point.

Ken Kanara: Yeah, actually, actually I did, I did, but I won’t reveal what that, what that blog what that blog is mainly to protect the guilty. But no, Ryan really, really appreciate you joining the podcast today. I, I think we’ve got a lot to laugh about, but some interesting kind of topics for our youth are our lists.

You know, in terms of today was really hoping to kind of cover first , you know, what it is, the company does, what you do for them. And then kind of venture into your past in, in strategy and consulting and, and share really kind of like with our listeners, what, what you learned and kind of how you transitioned to, to get there.

And then we can kind of wrap things up after that, but I guess starting out what is Q Ventas and what do you guys do?

Ryan Starks: Yeah, absolutely. So is an enterprise automation software company that uses AI and machine learning to help hospitals automate their care operations. And so if you’ve ever experienced a delay in a waiting in the emergency department, or, you know, you or a loved one has been in the hospital and you know, has been ready to go home, but that’s been delayed or, you know, you’ve waited the first surgery.

You know, because there wasn’t a slot available, those are the types of operational challenges that we help hospitals and health systems solve.

And so we have a, you know, to, to do that, we provide an automation platform that integrates with hospital. Electronic health records uses AI and machine learning.

And then. You know, we have best practice solutions to help hospitals address specific problems in their inpatient settings, emergency departments, perioperative settings. And then we also provide, you know, services layer on top of that to help help come help hospitals implement our technology and and drive change over time.

Ken Kanara: So that’s okay. So that’s, that’s a big, huge problem to solve. Right. And so you mentioned a few things there. So you mentioned software. I imagine there’s a hardware component. You’re, you’re dealing with operations, the, these clients of yours, then these health systems. I mean, this isn’t a small undertaking when you, when you decide a new client, I imagine.

Ryan Starks: No, it is it’s, you know, we, we are selling an enterprise platform and you know, I think we’ve, we’ve seen a massive opportunity for that in the market. You know, as health systems in our hospitals have invested in electronic health records. Over the past decades, those have moved the whole industry from a very you know, paper-based system to a digital system, but those are still systems of record.

And I think as hospitals look to drive operational efficiency, you know, just in, you know, in response to, you know, a number of different macro factors. You know, but really trying to, you know, drive as much value out of the health system as possible. They’re focused on addressing their operations in a new way, and that really requires this enterprise approach.

And that’s really what we’ve set out to build. And so, you know, we’ve thoughtfully built this, you know, complete system for automating care operations, but it is a large undertaking. And, you know, we start with hospitals and in different settings some, some of the hospitals we work with. Our S you know, start kind of in the inpatient setting and are focused on patient flow.

Other systems that we’re focused on, you know, have operational challenges and want to focus on the peri-operative space. And so we do kind of begin engagements from different angles you know, but it is a you know, it is kind of a, it takes a lot of change management. To implement the technology and, you know, really, really fundamentally we’re helping to hardware, a lot of operational processes.

And so it’s a fundamental shift in the way that that hospitals are operating.

Ken Kanara: If you were to think about kind of like your textbook health system, that you’re helping out, what are the, the two or three, like big problems you’re solving for the patient?

Ryan Starks: Yeah, it’s a great question. So, you know, the, maybe we’ll share two examples, one of the inpatient and one of the peri-operative.

So. So on the inpatient side, one of the challenges is around getting a patient out, you know, safely and on time, there are numerous reasons why you don’t want to be in the hospital longer than absolutely medically necessary. There’s a hospital acquired infections you know, additional costs. It’s just, you know, it’s taking up a bed that another patient could actually use.

And so, you know, but, but actually getting a patient out, you know, safely and on time is a massive challenge. And today what happens is, you know, a patient gets admitted their care progresses, but there’s not a clear kind of date or plan from the, from the very beginning. And, you know, through research, you know, and, you know, widely known best practices in the industry, you know, and some additional research that cubensis has done.

You know, if we’ve determined, if you actually set an early create an early discharge plan, meaning you, you set the estimated date of when a patient should go you then identify all the tasks that need to happen and you automate those. You can more consistently get patients out, you know, safely and on time.

So again, that’s, you know, better for the hospital, better for the care team and ultimately better for the patient as well as their planning of their transition out of the hospital. So that’s one massive opportunity that we help help health systems dress and the other, you know, shares on the peri-operative space.

So, you know, right now, you know, about 30% of available or time is often locked off and it’s really due to inefficient scheduling processes. You know, scheduling a surgical case, you know, if you go to a surgeon and you know, you need a surgery there often be a delay in actually getting into the hospital for that surgery.

And a lot of that is due to the inefficiencies in that scheduling process. And so we’re trying to, you know, help, help health systems unlock more or time. And, and we do that, you know, through machine learning and identify when there’s opportunity to actually free up time much further in advance than than what hospitals do today.

So, right right now, you know, if a surgeon is not going to use kind of dedicated time that they have, that the often released the time at the last minute, and then the hospital has to go scramble and say, oh, like who could come in? You know, two days from now for surgery. And that’s just not, not efficient for the health system.

It’s not good for patient experience. And so we’ll actually free up that time in advance and then can help market that time to the, you know, the best fit surgeon in advance as well. And, you know, so we’re getting a patient in sooner at a time that otherwise may have gone unused or would not have been optimally used as well.

Ken Kanara: That makes sense. And especially you, I like that example because that you kind of see is obviously good for the patient. That’s waiting for a surgery, but also good for the health system. That’s trying to kind of run a business. Right. Cause that, you know, that’s an undeniable thing, right. That I think a lot of people kind of forget.

Ryan Starks: Yeah, there’s a lot of consultants that actually like, love to go and, and do you know, operating, operating room kind of scheduling optimization. And I can’t tell you how many PowerPoints and excels we’ve seen, you know, trying to optimize that. And, you know, the truth is that it really does require kind of a real time optimization.

And it’s a, it’s a, it’s, you know, it’s a tricky kind of challenging problem to solve and relying on. Just manual intuition and manual processes is not a winning strategy. It, it doesn’t kind of translate to the results that you want. It puts a lot of burden on the actual scheduling teams. It drives a lot of dissatisfaction with surgeons.

And so that’s really the opportunity for technology to come in. Kind of create a true marketplace for our time and it really creates value, I think, for all the different stakeholders involved.

Ken Kanara: Yeah. And that’s and I get why you would need to attack it from not just, not just a people perspective, not just a technology perspective, not just a logistics, there’s a lot of moving pieces.

And okay. So I, and I, and I think those are two really good examples because that kind of paints the picture for what Q Ventas does. Well, I guess the thing that I’m curious about is kind of like why now? Right. So well I guess why is the opportunity? Yeah, I guess w why now? Why is this available now as opposed to kind of 10 years ago?

Ryan Starks: Yeah, that’s, that’s a great question. You know, I think if you go back 10 years, health systems, many health system had electronic health records, some were transitioning or kind of upgrading. I think, you know, there was still very nascent in artificial intelligence and machine learning usage in the healthcare space.

And I think what’s evolved over the past decade is a much deeper understanding of how to apply those technologies, you know, to the space. And and I think we’ve seen that in a couple of ways. I think you know, I think there’s. You know, abandoned an adoption of automation kind of first in more back-office settings.

And so you have you know, you have robotic process automation. That’s helped with very administrative tasks and health systems have started to adopt that. And then have had, you know, many successes there. There’s also been use of AI kind of at the bedside for, you know, clinical diagnoses or medications.

But there’s, there’s this massive space then of just how the hospital runs, you know, where I think there’s this convergence of automation and AI to help address those challenges. And then, you know, I think, you know, more recently too, you know, hospitals have always addressed operational challenges, you know, with different process improvement initiatives or trying to create different tools within their electronic health medical records.

And. You know, and, and really have needed to address operation operations in a different way. So, you know, the COVID-19 pandemic exposed these challenges. In many ways we saw hospitals at capacity and we now see these massive kind of staffing challenges and staffing shortages. And so, you know, at the core.

You know, hospitals are now going to very acutely aware of the shortcomings of, of the way they were working before. And this has put even more of a spotlight, I think, on the need to get a really world class operations.

Ken Kanara: Yeah. So, so Ryan, th that’s a, that’s a really big kind of problem you guys are trying to solve.

And if you think about kind of I guess cubensis from kind of like two lenses. One is like the technology side and then the other is the people side or the integration side or the customer success side. How big of an undertaking, is it for you, for you as you’re kind of like onboarding a new, a new, a new healthcare system?

Ryan Starks: Yeah, that’s a great question. You know, ultimately we believe, you know, the, the technology is driving the underlying efficiency, you know, but that comes with, you know, adoption of kind of new processes and and kind of hard-wearing the workflows, you know, with that technology. And so, you know, the. The bulk of the lift is certainly more in the deployment, so it we’ll help.

And we’ll, so during the deployment, you know, after, you know, some of the technical integration we’ll then work with teams to actually coach them, to use the technology. And you know, and then, you know, we’ll have a go live and, and a pretty you know, high touch experience kind of after go live, you know, and then over time, You know, the health system becomes more self self-sustaining, but we work with the health system, you know, to fine tune that implementation, you know, where they’re, you know, some additional opportunities to drive engagement with the technology.

Because we know engagement will drive the outcomes they want. And then we also are working with the health systems really from a partnership standpoint, to understand where are there further opportunities to unlock value, you know, through your operations. So so th yeah, the, you know, the, the people side I mean, we, we think of our work as a partnership and from, you know, from the start and, you know, that does come through, you know, the people side of the deployment, but then just the ongoing relationship and.

Really establishing that trust and, you know, coming to the table with, with shared interests of helping the health. And drive as much value as possible for the system and teams and patients.

Ken Kanara: So that’s, that’s really interesting, Ryan. Yeah, I guess, you know, I guess the, the thing that I’d be kind of like interested too, is like if you think about kinda like the, the, the people component, right?

Like how, how are you picking that up? You know, as you onboard kind of an, a new client or a new health system. Yeah, definitely.

Ryan Starks: I think the, you know, we think of this as a partnership from the. And I think that operates kind of at all levels of our interactions. When, you know, we, we first, you know, work through the technical integration.

And so if teams that, that partner kind of on the technical side and then we have a customer success team and clinical operations team that work with the health system end users to actually implement the technology. And so our coaching teams to use the technology, help them build it into their workflows.

And then. You know, our teams, you know, stay with them over time, really to fine tune. The way that they’re engaging with the technology to drive outcomes. And we’re also working with the teams and leadership to identify new opportunities for value creation over time. And so there is kind of the initial deployment phase, but then we, we think of it as kind of, you know, value enhancement over time.

Ken Kanara: Makes a lot of sense and something that I continue to hear as I talk to folks in tech, is that okay, you know, we obviously lead with technology, but there is like this really important kind of an initial kind of like upfront work that needs to be done, you know, getting on both sides, getting on the same side as the, of the table, as the client and working together to kind of like really, truly make it exists, success, both to drive outcomes for them as, as, as, as well as in your case for patients as well.

Some of those some of those things I actually kind of saw on your guys’ website which gets to a little bit of what you do for cubensis. So you, you lead marketing, so I can only imagine kind of what that’s like, but I guess it would love to hear a little.

Ryan Starks: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. So I lead our enterprise marketing.

I report to our chief marketing officer and you know, my focus is on helping to tell our message and our narrative out in the market. And that manifests through your thought leadership content through. Different for, through PR and communications. And also through customer marketing, helping our customers actually talk about their successes and lessons learned in the market as well.

You know, I work really closely with product marketing on our team. Our head of demand gen You know, and previously I was more focused on the product marketing side. And so that was actually my entry point into marketing at Humanitas as well. And, you know, my you know, given that we’re a, a growing startup have had the opportunity to wear many different hats.

And so my role has evolved over time and that’s you know, that’s part of, what’s been really exciting to me at

Ken Kanara: the company. Yeah, so Ryan, that’s really interesting. So I guess strategically, I mean, how do you think about marketing for ?

Ryan Starks: I think it really comes out of having a fully integrated marketing strategy and motion, and that stopped that starts with, you know, your go-to market strategy, you know, and, and the company overall strategy and positioning.

And so, you know, then I think that translates to how you think about your, your category and your overall, you know, messaging for each of your products. And it translates, you know, down to, you know, the, the full kind of marketing funnel. So driving awareness upstream through different concepts. And events helping, you know, the actual evaluation process forward for new customers, you know, in, in different pitch decks and sales enablement.

And then also, you know, for existing customers helping to capture those stories and. You know, build champions out in the market, you know, to talk about, you know, their successes. So I think it’s really about, you know, and then, and then it’s also going to building the foundational infrastructure that then supports kind of all of that.

So I think it’s really an integrated approach. And it starts again with the company overall strategy and has a lot of, you know, ties into all the different functions within the company as well.

Ken Kanara: And some of the most interesting stuff that I’ve seen you guys do is actually having real customers or clients of yours, talk about and what it’s done.

It was really neat to hear. How did you, how did you all put that together? Or where did you think of that approach? Yeah, that’s a great

Ryan Starks: question. And I think that’s actually probably one of my things. Parts of my job, because I feel like we’re helping you know, how helping one of our kind of customers tell their own story to the market.

Really, I think is, you know, proof point of impact. And it’s an exciting moment. And, and. I think for, you know, what I think about, you know, the opportunity. It’s not so much about , but it’s about the actual customer’s success. What have they been able to achieve, you know, through their work and, you know, with using our technology, but what is the impact that they’ve actually been able to make?

And, and how have we helped them be successful? And I think that’s both in an organizational level, but it’s also to very human person to person level as well. And. You know, so, you know, coming back to, to your question, I just, how we’ve made that work. And I think, you know, first of all, you have to, you have to be, you actually have to make them successful.

And that that depends on the whole company. You know, the, everything had a working and setting them up for that success. You know, then we just get to help tell the story. You know, I think helping champions, you know, find venues that are relevant to them, whether it’s different events or forums or publications I think is, you know, finding kind of the right channels is important, but then also, you know, what is the right message that they want to share with the market that also aligns with what we want to share as well.

And that’s, that’s kind of another aspect of it. So this is, you know, manifested through the different speaking engagements webinars, you know, thought leadership case, study videos and a variety of different formats. But again, I think it all comes back to thinking about the messaging. You both want to bring to the market and then what’s the right channel and form.

Ken Kanara: And I love that approach because those, those kind of stories and like the human element really comes through in, in the material that you guys are putting out. And, and, and, and, and like, I don’t know how I know, but. Pretty clear that it’s genuine. Right. And I, and I think like, that’s, that’s something that like people pick up on.

Right. And it’s, it’s, it’s like, you only know it when you, when you see something that is not genuine. Right. And, and I love all the stuff that you got, all the content that you guys have put out there because it is all very real. It doesn’t feel contrived. It genuinely kind of like resonates with me, who knows, basically nothing about kind of healthcare and hospitals.

Ryan Starks: No, I appreciate that. And I think, you know, I think it’s true in any industry, you know, authenticity matters. I think it’s especially true in healthcare. There’s a lot at stake. You’re thinking about patient’s lives and, you know, as you think about technology, there’s a lot of nuances in how it’s adopted and you know, it’s important for us that the authentic perspectives, you know, come through.

And so you know, I think the piece that I would add is that. You know, helping someone tell their story is also a bit of an art though, you know, and you know, a lot of times if an individual hasn’t had an opportunity to do so, there’s kind of that coaching aspect up front of helping them, you know, take a step back, understand what were they trying to solve?

How did they do that? You know, and then what were their outcomes? And so there’s, there’s certainly kind of that activation that I think you could help support in the market as well from marketing perspective.

Ken Kanara: That’s really cool. And so one of the reasons I was really excited about having you on here too, is because I thought our listeners would find kind of your career path to get to, to get to the thing that you’re doing now.

Pretty interesting. Right? So it’s like if I’m leaving management consulting, The things that you just walked us through. It’s not something that I go, oh yeah, I could do that. How the heck did you get to kinda like where you’re at and, and how did you get interested in healthcare? How did you get interested in marketing?

Like kind of what took you here?

Ryan Starks: Yeah, it’s a funny story, actually. So, you know, as you were alluding to, I spent a lot of, you know, the, the first kind of, part of my career at that and company, and then Innosight, I mean, consulting, I think. You know, looking back my favorite classes and undergrad and grad school or marketing, but I wasn’t jumping at marketing jobs right off the bat because I was very, very interested in in consulting.

You know, I think consulting gave me a really good foundational toolkit, you know, from an analytics as well as a storytelling perspective. And, you know, the, I guess I’ll kind of take the healthcare and maybe the marketing. You know, pieces separately, I think, you know, from a health care kind of industry focus perspective, it’s always been very interested in the medical space know from an early age.

You know, and that that’s always, you know, just growing around, you know, my, my mom’s a nurse and had a lot of elderly folks in in my family who were always in the hospital. So it was just always very fascinated by that space. And and I think I’d explored different ways to. Yeah, come to the healthcare space.

But as I was thinking about leaving consulting, you know, it was important for me to like, that was kind of my jumping off point to have that industry focus. You know, and I really saw, you know, when I, when I was leaving consulting, you know, I saw kind of this emergence of healthcare technology and saw found that to be a really compelling, interesting place to get into.

So the first startup I joined, it was more in a wear all hats. Product strategy, you know, turning that into product marketing type role. And then when I was actually exploring joining , you know, first of all was very, very interested in our mission and really felt connected with with the team as well.

And it actually was kind of a happenstance that I got connected with the chief marketing officer at that time. And. And her, and I had some conversations around my interests and my experience. And I said, you know, I hadn’t actually thought about joining on the marketing side, but from what you were describing, this feels like a really exciting fit.

And you know, so I took a bit of a, I guess, leap of faith on that. And it’s funny because it feels like such a natural place. For me, I think the, the marketing side. Your place both into kind of the left brain analytics, and then combines that with the right brain kind have creative storytelling side.

You know, that I think is just a core part of who I am. And so it’s been a very natural fit for me from a functional perspective, but, you know, wasn’t super obvious to me right off the bat. I think a lot of, you know, consultants go into in the, in the tech space, we’ll go into. Direct client facing roles, either on kind of a customer success team or partnerships, or even on the sales side.

You know, and, and I think there’s, there’s massive opportunities and marketing or even product functions that consultants don’t think of off the bat. You know, perhaps it’s due to exposure, but I think can be a super interesting place to place in a kind of entry point in after consult. The,

Ken Kanara: No, especially the part you just mentioned about storytelling.

Right? I think that’s something that, that we probably don’t realize that we’re learning when we’re doing consulting. Right. It’s it’s but it is the whole job in consulting. You’re usually doing it with data or. You know, analytics. Right. But, but you are telling a story. Right. And then I also, I, I get what you mean about the, kind of like the left brain left brain, right.

Brain kind of part of the job. I’ve always, like I said, I’ve always been scared of marketing because, because I feel like it’s, again, a lot more art than science, but the way that you’ve kind of broken it down to me, In this chat as well as kind of like offline makes so much sense to me. And I get that, I get that there’s a real structure behind it, but then there’s also kind of like a softer kind of like human element.

And it, to me, it seems like obvious that it’s a natural fit for you having, having known

Ryan Starks: you. Yeah. And I think the storytelling part, you know, in consulting, right, you’re going into a new engagement. Yeah, framing up the challenge, doing some analysis to help solve that and proposing solutions back and trying to get buy in.

I think it’s really similar kind of from the marketing standpoint, the, I think the piece that’s different is you’re helping a client to actually, you know, think about a problem space that they may have addressed in the past, but in a new way and kind of helping to. You know, helping to drive awareness that they may have had this massive challenge, you know, there’s, there’s going to be kind of winners or losers, you know, of addressing that challenge, you know, and here’s kind of the path that they could take and a new approach they can take to make them successful.

So certainly a lot of analogies, but I think it’s I think the. You know, being in the marketing role versus the consultant role is I think that’s where the, the results matter even more cause you don’t get to step away as a client, but are actually responsible for delivering a sale or a renewal or or helping to drive greater share of voice in the market.

You know, the, the end kind of results matter more.

Ken Kanara: So I was just about to ask what’s the, what’s like, kind of like the missing ingredient from consulting. Like where did you have to kind of like I guess, you know, take me take, take your medicine a little bit.

Ryan Starks: Yeah. That’s another great question. I think consulting provides.

It provided me with a, there’s a fantastic foundational toolkit, right. For analytics for you know, for the storytelling aspect as well. You know, and there’s also a kind of rigor in the way of working as well. That I think is really you get that discipline through consulting. I think the piece that I’ve appreciated a lot more kind of being on the other side is that.

You know, strategy is one thing, but execution is another. And to execute on a strategy there, you need to be so considered about what are your available resources that you have to work with and what constraints are you working with? And what’s kind of the time boundary that you need to execute on and, you know, understanding kind of the art and science of how to bring all those together.

You know, and, you know, execute and deliver something. I think can be, you know, you don’t get as much exposure to kind of on the consulting side. It’s more than just like a PowerPoint and slides, but it’s actually, you know, landing a new customer or, you know, pushing out a new campaign. And it’s that, I think it’s that execution art that No, I think it’s really kind of a really valuable skill to take to the next level.

Ken Kanara: Yeah. And it’s funny too, and I’m guilty of this too, but in, in consulting, like implementation or execution is almost like a bad, a bad word. And we were, we were like a bit snobbish about like, oh, I only do strategy. And it’s like, you, you get into the real world and. W what, what, what the hell does that do for you?

It’s, it’s, it’s a, it’s a good place to start, but it’s not going to a good strategy. It’s not going to get you anywhere if you can’t do anything with it. So no that, that’s a, that’s a point well taken and and I guess Ryan, what advice would you give to someone that is. Thinking about kind of like leaving consulting and either wanting to go into kind of like a role like you have not necessarily focused on healthcare, but you know, a marketing kind of a strategic marketing role.

Ryan Starks: Yeah. I mean, I think, I think as if you’re in consulting and looking at new opportunities, you know, in the marketing space I mean there’s a couple of different dimensions that you can think about, you know, do is there an industry vertical that you’re very interested in, that you have experienced.

Is there a type of company that you want to work for as well? Something more established or a large company versus early stage and growth. And I think you need to be deliberate about, you know, what, you know, what, what your preference and in a where, where, where you have appetite for first of all I think though, even more importantly is.

To think about it as you’re making that type of transition and think about who is the leader and team that you can work with. And ultimately, you know, if you’re making that transition from consulting into marketing, you know, surrounding yourself with others that you can learn from, and you know, that will enable you to be successful and contribute, I think will be a huge determinant of success in the longterm.

And so that would be kind of the, the lens that I would, I would recommend for anyone, regardless of kind of where you fall in industry or stage of company, you know, think about who you can learn from and surround yourself with you know, to set you up for success. And then you know, whether it’s, you know, an entry point into product marketing, which can be a really natural fit for consultants, you know, or you know, or sports something else.

I think, I think team matters.

Ken Kanara: That’s such a great point. I talk to folks literally every day and it’s not their fault, but like when candidates are considering different options, it’s the number one thing that they want to talk about is base salary and bonus. Right. And it’s, it’s like, yes, that matters.

Don’t get me wrong. That, that is the thing that probably, you know, it probably matters the most, but there’s just like a total lack of, kind of like, I would say focus on kind of like vetting the other side. Right. So you’re about to take a job with someone you’re going to spend a ton of time with. You should, you should think through like, what, what that means.

You’re going to be spending most of your waking hours with that person. And it matters not, not just in the short term, but kind of can kind of have ripple long-term effects. Okay. So last question. And we ask all of our guests this what book recommendations you have, and it doesn’t have to be related to anything we talk about today.

We, we get a lot of oddballs suggestions.

Ryan Starks: I guess one thing that one book that I was going to recommend is is building a story about. By Donald Miller. This has been a book that I’ve kind of kept back pocket in, in my marketing career, you know, and just how to actually frame a story, you know, in the market.

And clarifying that your, your message for customers. So that’s, that’s one. The other piece that I the other book that I really like is atomic habits. And just the art of habit buildings. So kind of more from a self-development perspective, I found that super valuable and tried to implement some of those practices in my own life.

Ken Kanara: At the risk of sounding cliche. I love the book atomic habits to it. It, it explains why a lot of my faults and shortcomings things that I do wrong on a daily basis. So. No, I like that book. Ryan, thanks so much for joining us today. So if listeners want to learn more about or learn more about what you guys are doing, w what, what should you, how should they find you?

What should they do?

Ryan Starks: Yeah, absolutely. You know, I would certainly direct folks to learn about our, you know, go to our website, learn more about what we do. We have a lot of a lot of materials about, you know, the health health system impact as well. You know, and read some of the stories and videos and watch some of the videos that we have.

That’s probably the best place to learn about the true impact of what we’re doing.

Ken Kanara: Awesome. Cool. And that’s Okay. All right. Good stuff. Well, thank you so much for joining us today. And for, for our listeners first time listeners, if you want to subscribe to get alerted of future podcasts, go ahead and do so.

And then if you want to look up past episodes, check out www dot. Beyond And if you want to get in touch with ECA partners, that’s But until next week Ryan, thanks so much. And, and, and we’ll, we’ll talk to you then.

Ryan Starks: Thanks so much Ken.

Published On: May 11th, 2022|Categories: Beyond Consulting, Podcast|

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